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#1 Nov. 27, 2005 20:57:51

Zeev S.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word))


At 22:18 27/11/2005, Nicolas Bérard Nault wrote:Goto exists in C. If you affirm that goto shouldnot exist in PHP because it gives theopportunity to screw their code to programmers,are you also affirming that C programmers are smarter than PHP programmers ?I wouldn't make any statement regarding theintelligence level of C and PHP developers, sincethere are plenty of idiots and smart people onboth camps; It has everything to do withtraining and experience. And the training andexperience levels of the average PHP developer isnowhere near that of the average C/C++ developer.Sorry for repeating it for the 1001st time in thefew years, but PHP did not get to where it istoday because we added everything and the kitchensink, that's Perl. I would *really* be great ifpeople realized that PHP the way it is now issuccessful, but it's not inherent to the PHPproject. Not every bunch of features we packunder the name "PHP" will retain this level of success.We *can* screw it if we go in the wrongdirection, and adding redundant features whichare useful in rare cases and much more likely tobe abused than to be properly used is a good stepin that direction. A lot of people are saying wealready went too far with PHP 5, and that'sarguable. It's clear, however, that adding moreand more language features and making PHP moreand more complex is not a good recipe.Zeev--
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#2 Nov. 27, 2005 21:42:05

Robert C.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word))


On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 15:54, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>
> We *can* screw it if we go in the wrong
> direction, and adding redundant features which
> are useful in rare cases and much more likely to
> be abused than to be properly used is a good step
> in that direction. A lot of people are saying we
> already went too far with PHP 5, and that's
> arguable. It's clear, however, that adding more
> and more language features and making PHP more
> and more complex is not a good recipe.

While I agree that PHP is not Perl, nor would I want it to be, the goto
construct would improve the clarity of code and would be more useful to
less experienced developers than attempting to retool the while or
do/while constructs into emulating the same functionality. Additionally
the goto construct is an order of magnitude faster (and I'd argue
clearer) than setting a state variable and checking it's value via
switch cases or if/elseif/elseif/.../else. I mean the argument
constantly being made against goto is that newbies will shoot themselves
in the foot, well from what I've seen newbies very often shoot
themselves in the foot regardless of the measures taken to prevent such
an outcome. Seriously, if a newbie can understand polymorphism, then can
we not give them the benefit of the doubt that they can understand goto?

Cheers,
Rob.
--
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| InterJinn Application Framework -http://www.interjinn.com|
:------------------------------------------------------------:
| An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
| a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
| such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
| also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
| creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
`------------------------------------------------------------'

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